Oops- Sodium Picramate - any advice/ experience?

[Peonyrose]

Hello everyone, I was hoping someone with experience might be able to help me out! Last night I dyed my hair with a new brand of henna, which of course was meant to be "all natural" but as soon as I mixed it with water I thought it might have had sodium picramate added. I've used Mehandi/ Henna for Hair/, Camilla (the good stuff), and henna from henna soon, Lush blocks etc over the years so I do know what plain proper henna/ cassia/ indigo is all about. Sure enough, stained my skin (which the pure stuff never really seems to do), and my hair came out an AWESOME deep cherry red, with cool tones rather than the orangey pre-oxidation. I'm actually pretty happy with the colour and have no issue with the picramate, I'm just wondering;
- how quickly does it wash out? Kind of keen to get back to plain henna so wanting to know whether I'm going to have to deal with a demarcation line?
- can I use normal plain henna over the top and will this help lift out some of the picramate?
- has anyone here used picramate longer term and does it dry out the hair long term?
I have a pixie haircut at the moment that I'm trying to grow out, so no real disaster, but I'd be a bit annoyed if I end up with stripes as its growing out!
Thank you for any advice/ experience!

[Peonyrose]

Ugh - auto spell check! Those henna brands should be Jamilla & Henna Sooq!

[lapushka]

Sodium picramate isn't the end of the world. It isn't a metallic salt. I used to buy from Hennaplus which is a guaranteed metallic salt free brand and it contained SP.

Honey, henna doesn't wash out. It is as permanent as you can get. Even more permanent than regular dyes are and it is a terrible thing to have to get out of your hair if you no longer want the red.

Regular henna, any kind of henna, over it will be just fine!

[Peonyrose]

Thanks Lapushka! I know henna is permanent, used it for many years when I had long hair and wow did the lengths stay true even with pool swimming! I was just wondering whether I'll be growing out some cherry ends, or if the SP somehow makes the lawsone molecule not bind as well long term, but as long as I can put normal henna over the top it's all good. Can i ask whether you noticed any loss of condition with the SP henna? There is not a lot out there on the web, and the little there is seems to have conflicting reports.

[lapushka]

SP makes the henna produce its stain faster and it sticks faster while you can leave it on for less time, at least that's my experience.

No, I never noticed less intensity, on the contrary. It stayed really vibrant for me, and it never bled in the wash.

[Peonyrose]

Thank you again Lapushka- good to know & it came out such a lovely cherry colour that I may just even continue with it!

[esfand]

Sodium picramate is a metallic salt, but that's not a bad thing. The reason why salts are considered "bad" is because they react funny to chemical hair dyes that you may use on your hair in the future. Henna, the plant itself, is already difficult to take from hair and can prevent hair dye from working properly, but henna with salts added even more so.

However, if you don't plan on using chemical dyes on top of the hair you henna'd (with sodium picramate), there's nothing wrong with it. SP draws out the deep burgundy shades of henna which you would not have easily have gotten otherwise, and the deep stain of henna is long lasting and one of the best red dyes ever. I never heard of SP preventing lawsone from binding or negatively effecting henna performance. I plan on using SP henna myself. Go ahead and keep using it like regular henna.

[Peonyrose]

Thanks for the extra info! I'm definitely back on the henna train now, missed how shiny it made my hair. Just need to grow it longer now! The colour bleeding has stopped from the SP henna batch, and colour is as intense as it started on the bleached ends despite my daily washing frequency ( it's what my hair needs, not trying to wash the colour out!).

[lapushka]

Sodium picramate is a metallic salt, but that's not a bad thing. The reason why salts are considered "bad" is because they react funny to chemical hair dyes that you may use on your hair in the future. Henna, the plant itself, is already difficult to take from hair and can prevent hair dye from working properly, but henna with salts added even more so.

Do you have any info you can link? Scientific info that it is so, because I'd be quite curious to read it.

I have always bought the brand Hennaplus which uses SP, and is a "guaranteed" metallic salt free brand!

[nekosan]

Sodium picarmate is exactly what people are talking about when they say "metallics salt" in henna.

Some quick links to chemical information for you:
https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/com...n=2D-Structure
http://www.chemicalland21.com/specia...0PICRAMATE.htm

I wan unable to find any claims that Hennaplus was lacking in metallic salts. I was able to find a claim that it did not have PPD.
http://hennaplus.nl/en
"Being one of the first in the world to introduce P-Phenylenediamine (PPD) free formulations..."

PPD and sodium picarmate are two completely different chemicals.

ETA:
Sodium Picramate is the sodium salt of Picramic Acid.
Sodium is a metal.
Sodium Picarmte is thus a metallic salt.