Yucca Vs. Soapwort Vs. Aritha/Soapnuts?

[ktani]

mellie

I am glad that the lather is working for you but I do not believe that the foam is necessary. While I have read about this before, this way of putting it is one of the best, IMO.

"Detergents .... make bubbles because they reduce the surface tension of water, reducing the collapsing force so a bubble is easier to create and sustain. This process is .... independent of the cleansing chemistry of the soap."
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/fo...?topic=16313.0

Saponins are natural detergents.

[mellie]

I think what the foam is doing perhaps is helping to distribute the cleansing power better, since the liquid is so runny otherwise. With this I have more control over where it goes. It certainly is working WAY better for my greasy roots and the hairs near my face!

[Heidi_234]

mellie

I am glad that the lather is working for you but I do not believe that the foam is necessary. While I have read about this before, this way of putting it is one of the best, IMO.

"Detergents .... make bubbles because they reduce the surface tension of water, reducing the collapsing force so a bubble is easier to create and sustain. This process is .... independent of the cleansing chemistry of the soap."
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/fo...?topic=16313.0

Saponins are natural detergents.

Well then doesn't bubbles indicate that detergents are present? Of course, the whole liquid is filled with saponins, but there is still an enormous body of water there, with this or that consternation of saponins. After all, the foam is the same soapy water, with defenite consistency of detergents.
I also agree with Mille, is seems more affective to use the foam that stay and pops where you apply it instead of liquid that runs down your hair in seconds.

I just had a shower, and I used our fancy new foam method with the soapnuts. I shook real good the ex-conditioner bottle and turned it with the opening up (so that the liquid won't pour out) and squeezed the foam out on my hand and applied to my hair and scalp. When there was no foam left I closed the bottle, shook again and squeezed the foam out with the opening up and so on.
It is indeed much easier to apply this way but I was afraid I'll run out of hot water while standing there while shaking and squeezing the bottle so I ran the rest of liquid as it was through my hair.
My hair had that great velvet feel to it again, so I'm happy. I oiled my scalp with enhanced EVOO before the shower but as much as I can tell right now (my hair's still wet) it's not oily or greasy anymore.
I can't wait to see how the foaming container would work for you Millie, it's ridiculously cheap!

[mellie]

I can't wait to see how the foaming container would work for you Millie, it's ridiculously cheap!

I know, right? It's just 55 cents!

[ktani]

Well then doesn't bubbles indicate that detergents are present? !

Yes, the foam does indicate the presence of saponins, and yes they are in the liquid.

I am glad that this is working well. All I am saying is, that lather is not what cleans primarily and low to no lather detergents can clean as effectively as high lather detergents.

[ktani]

Wiki is not one of my favorite sources of information, but this article on the history of shampoo is pretty good, IMO.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shampoo

I am unfamiliar with this fruit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bael

Interesting, IMO
http://www.botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/b/bael--01.html

More here
http://www.naturalstandard.com/index.../baelfruit.asp

[ktani]

Haha, you're funny Ljkforu!

--Update-- Soapnut Foam Wash!!

I want to thank Heidi_234 for the idea of shaking the liquid! This morning I took just 2 oz. of the liquid in a big 8 oz. container and shook it up to make it all foam, then scooped up that foam to wash with, it works really wonderfully!! My roots weren't even the slightest bit greasy. Also, my hair looked nice and dark too, without that problem I was having of the grays appearing lighter!! I am very excited by this! My hair looked exactly as I've been hoping to get - beautiful body and shine, plus the retention of my henndigo color too!! Yay!!! Heidi you rock!!!! Plus, it's easier to keep it out of your eyes, since it's not a runny liquid!!

I'm going to try another experiment! I just ordered some foaming shampoo containers - I wonder how that will work with soapnut liquid! I think it helps a lot to get more foam, and therefore better cleansing! And maybe I can stretch my liquid some to help save money too!

Wild guess on my part but maybe, because the soap nuts are in pure form, the saponins settle in the liquid and are more concentrated somehow in the foam, without the other constituents.

[mellie]

FYI - I've been trying to keep up research on the safety of using soapnuts, and I came across this today:

http://www.archive.org/stream/indian...41mbp_djvu.txt

Sapindaceae

(Soap-nut Family)
Saponins, cyanogenetic compounds.

59- Sapindus mukorossi Gaertn. (Vern:-S.-Phenila, H. B. & Bo.-
Ritha), S. trtfoliatm Linn. (Vern:-S.-Phenila, H. B. & Bo.-Ritha,
M.-Ponnan-kottai)

Both are fish poisons, emetic, purgative and are used for
procuring abortion.

And also here:

http://books.google.com/books?id=3ZZ...sult#PPA335,M1

I can't copy text from it but it also lists S. mukorossi as an abortifacient and uterine stimulant.

Also here:

http://medicinalplantindia.com/index...dumetorum_Poir

Fruit—nervine, calmative, antispasmodic, emetic, anthelmintic, abortifacient.

ETA: Here's some more references I found:

http://envis.frlht.org.in/botanical_search.php?gesp=1851|Sapindus+emarginatu s+VAHL.

Botanical Name: Sapindus emarginatus VAHL. Family: SAPINDACEAE HabitTreeThreat: StatusLow Risk-Least Concerned/Regional Used In: Ayurveda, Folk and Unani ...

Common Uses: Induces vomiting, abortion and laxation....

That last one is for S. emarginatus which is a slightly different species than S. mukorossi, however, it is still used for detergent and washing purposes.

http://books.google.com/books?id=9jY...m=10&ct=result

"Said to act on the uterus and is used to bring on abortion"

http://db.jhuccp.org/ics-wpd/exec/ic...gRecordDisplay

5) when the methanol fraction of Sapindus trifoliatus was administered orally in rats on pregnancy Day 4-5, it inhibited implantation on 100% of the rats suggesting that it acts mainly as a blastocystoxic agent.

So, maybe it would be best to not use soapnuts for shampoo during pregnancy?

[mellie]

Here's some more on the above:

http://www.hennaindia.com/reetha.html

Ayurveda also uses pessaries made from the fruit to induce childbirth, both the purposes of abortion and for cases of difficult delivery...

What a pessary is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pessary

So, perhaps it is OK to use soapnuts on the hair during pregnancy?

[ktani]

This is everything I had saved on saponin toxicity.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...6&postcount=34